unnecessary

Windows Vista, a long-winded effort, will still stumble and fall when compared against the mature, and substantially more stable OS X. I switched over a year ago for good, and I’m never going back, except for when I want to run XP, or Vista, or whatever they throw up in Redmond for sheer amusement through Parallels on my MacBook.

I’m not an Apple fanboy; I’m an Apple fanatic. I never, ever, felt the way I do about Apple’s products with anything that came out of Microsoft’s coffers.

Thanks for reading my blog and especially for leaving a comment.

Wow…no comment about “Dale.”

Nice preview of what’s to come. I’m quite happy with Vista (I got my hands on Business edition way before the official release) and it’s good to know Microsoft hasn’t fallen asleep.

One thing: I do believe you mean “doesn’t” in the last bulleted point on Vienna? I’d hate for a single exploit to cripple a system by design… =P

Thanks for pointing that out. Its fixed now.

‘Dale’ might be a little biased towards OSX, but at least he admits that he’s an Apple fanatic. And I do know what he means when he says that he doesn’t feel the same way about Microsoft products like he does for Apple products.

And I have Windows Vista Ultimate, and I love it, there are no ultimate extras yet, but they’ll be available for download, when Vista is released on Jan 30th. I did get to play around with the sidebar, the Speech Recognition, the search, etc.

P.S. Thanks for reading my blog.

Wow, vienna sounds… adventurous. It seems like the kind of thing that is highly likely to run over budget, take too long and then getting axed. But on the other hand, there’s also a chance it might be really revolutionary. Given MS’s market dominance, its odd to see them take risks like that. On the other hand, they probably think they have the budget to just give it a try and swallow the costs if it fails.

Hi. Nice updates. But doesn’t it look like MS is getting a li’l desperate for attention? Esp. with windows automotive. Its so lame and nothing beyond putting a laptop into a nice li’l bay in your car. This looks like the begining of the end for MS.

Oh, and i forgot about the laptop-for-nice-blog thing thats happened recently.

I agree with Morbo that Microsoft is taking a huge risk with their current idea for Vienna. It does have quite a few perks, but it’s ultimate downfall lies in removing backwards compatibility. If they maintain their idea for removing compatibility for older programs clients will more than likely reluctant to make the transfer to a new OS.

I am personally looking forward to the oncoming competition for OS supremacy.

Hey, nicely written blog entry.

I remember recently reading a blog about how Microsoft announced its future plans to re-invent computing by producing a new, radical approach to operating systems…. back in 1995. Link below but you can also google for “cairo microsoft” to get a bunch of links. Interestingly, many of the features touted for Cairo are being recycled again and again, like WinFS - new name, of course.

http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/4E2A8848-5738-45B1-A659-AD7473899D7D.html

Yeah, speech recognition… sounds coool. Now, think about the reality: everyone talking to their PCs in a crowded office or library, trying to talk on the phone and to the PC at the same time when they could just be typing like they do RIGHT NOW. Big improvement, huh? NOOOOO

To tell you the truth, with how badly overprices vista is, i can see many people switching to linux. Vista isn’t much better than any of the major linux distros.

Oh Dale Dale Dale. By branding yourself an Apple fanatic, we know a few things. One, we know that you don’t understand the hyper-minority of Macs in the market. NetApplication and Hitslink report 4%. That’s right, 4. You and your 4% can have OS X. I’m going to need something a little more powerful. Fanatics are never the majority anyway.

Well written article! I must say, this gets me really excited about the future of computers! Fiji sounds kind of cool, but Vienna seems like it is going to take the cake because of its break throughs.

May I ask where you learned this information? Feel free to shoot me an E-Mail.

Since I am only 15 (almost 16), Vista probably won’t come for many years for me (hehe) but I must say, even with its flaws, it (Vista) looks like an improvement of XP. All things need a tweak or two, especially when the dev team had as many problems as they did.

Thanks again,
Christopher

Sounds like if they keep with that plan, Microsoft will be pretty few and far between. Vienna sounds like a “futuristic” approach to a computer, especially since it will only be 2010. But, of course, who’s to know what kind of technologies we may have by then. I guess time will tell.

Ouch. How many times can they pull this scam before people catch on?

Fijis of the past: 95/98/ME, XP
Viennas of the past: 2000, Vista

There will never be a revolutionary new operating system from Microsoft. Windows is good enough, and no one wants anything but incremental upgrades.

Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t Microsoft remove NATIVE compatibility in Vienna, but still have VM style compatibility? Isn’t that what OSX did for older programs? Or am I missing something here? Heck, it should work even BETTER for Vienna, as Microsoft has the advantage of Pacifica and [Intel's VM Friendly Processor], unlike poor OSX who was stuck with what ever the Power PC could put out.

I’m sure I am just being controlling or paranoid, and that this concern I have will be null by the time “Vienna” comes, but under the Vienna section where it says…
- “WinFS (or its successor) will replace NTFS. No more drives, or files/folders location to worry about. File Management will be done through applications, which will automatically index and sort the files they support.”
…I have to say, this got me worried that I will lose control over my data and the ability to easily backup just my files. See, the most important thing to me about digital life is well, me-generated-stuff. whether it’s docs, bookmarks, configuration, or whatever… I want to own and control that, not see some app index my shyt and sort/organize - I’ll do the filing and organizing please.

Truley inspiring.. Microsoft aint in the game of outbeating other OS’s they’ve finnally decided that innovation of there product lines is key to success.

Vienna sounds amazing (especially the UI stuff) and Fiji aint bad either.

Im an apple and microsoft support and i have to admit that microsoft have done amazing things with Vista especially from a technical perspective.

As for apple, to-date they were about 9% of the market and im sure they’ll jump to the 20-30% in the next couple of years. As they start getting the numbers im sure the bugs and viruses will follow. Microsoft have always been hit hardest by these things because they have always been the dominant operating system … People forget that, which is really sad!

Anyway back to the real world and … work

Machine Operator, by more powerful do you mean “has more games?”

A well, written blog entry. But did you notice that every amazing feature you wrote about Vista, was described as, “Just like Apple’s…” I like the way Windows is going, but they’re about 5 years behind Apple. I’m never going back to windows.

Machine Operator, market share != OS quality, power or fitness for any given task. Grow up.

of course speech recognition is not gonna replace a mouse and keyboard, do you know how exhausting it is to tell your computer everything by speech? Same goes for those gestures, like Tom Cruise uses in Minority Report. You can’t use that kind of interface for your daily work.

Good overview of the Redmond road map! Looks like the first blog post. I’d subscribe to the rss feed if there was one?

Ok..nice to know what coming, but I really have a bad feeling about the Vienna part..lot of promises, Microsoft really has gained a reputation for making them to keep everyone wondering about it, but eventually gets postponed to the “next” release. WinFS, for instance. For me Vista has only half of the feautures the guys at Redmond promised some time back..Vienna, I am sure is just a stinct like the Cairo back in the 90s or heck the supposed upgrade which turned out to be service packs.
Although I am a GNU/Linux user since my first computer (….yes I swear by it)
All these marketing gimmicks are made with investors in mind (I may be terribly wrong with this..but just my 2 cents..).
The other side including Mac OSX are much better than Windows.
Taking the simple example of the Aero interface which requires a hell of a computer, with Beryl/XGL or Aiglx I can have all those eyecandies with an average Intel Integrated GFX solution and 256 megs of RAM..Of course, setting it up is another issue but its always nice to see the community improving software. And MACs are a whole new story with regards to eye candies…..And all these at a 15 year old R & D!!…Believe me I know how it feels when being locked in to use something……
Just my rants…flames away

I can’t wait for Vista to come out. I for one have been reading digg and got caught up on all the hype for mac and went and bought a new macbook intel. It was cool for about a week and now I just use it to surf the internet in the living room. Sorry, but back to Windows for me. Not impressed at all with Mac.

I am so excited about $VAPOR_NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will surely go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm. Forget about security problems, that will be all fixed with $VAPOR. And they’ll *FINALLY* be ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF. Also there will be $VAPOR_DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It’ll be awesome!

I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $VAPOR_NEXT_VERSION.

The Apple trolls need to piss off. Who cares if MS is just now doing things that Apple has done in the past? Everyone takes different paths, but they will always cross each other later. When that happens ideas are copied and reworked slightly and given a new name. It happens everywhere. Just look at Coke and Pepsi. Everything they do now has some sort of immitator on the other side. What these ignorant people never seem to remember when boasting about one system or the other are the technical details. Apple makes some of the hardware themselves, and what isn’t made by them is made by someone who has strict details of how to make it. Microsoft doesn’t make the hardware. All sorts of other companies make the hardware pretty much however they want. Microsoft just makes the central location to use them. 99% of the time, when Windows has any kinds of problems its 3rd party related. Microsoft cannot compensate for every little possible problem. YOU, the user have to have a little knowledge and know-how. Windows allows you to do way more then the Mac will ever allow you to do, but you need to know what you’re doing otherwise your Windows experience will suck and you will go to the Mac where they can baby you.

Well, can you tell us something about who you are and how you know this information? If all this is true, Microsoft should be scared to death and their stockholders should be looking for different investments, due to lack of “innovation.”

Operating systems are infrastructure, and beyond a certain level, minor tweaks and maintenance are all one can expect.

[...] Read more. [...]

An excellent post on Fiji and Vienna. Saves me the time for having to google everything we know about both of them…

Virtual Machines and similar technologies will make
Vienna happen. We’d better pray they have the real
new OS in development or else we’re stuck with
the bloated, quasifunctional and unsecureable OS
which tries to be too meny things at the same time.
Let’s face it: Vista is not an OS. It’s an OS + App
Server + ‘Security Infrastructure’ +… a lot of
applications which shouldn’t really ever make it to
the OS itself. So, again, make no mistake: Vienna
will be a saving thing not only to Microsoft, but -
hopefully - for all of us. And what can it be? It
may be object-based, it may be well layered, it may
be well secured… hopefully. Any old apps working
ib a VM/sandbox. Makes sense, technically and from
the sales/marketimg stand-point. And it better come
sooner than later.

Sources?

Hi. Just as a mention to people above who have posted on how we have been promised “revolutionary” products before, try going back to using the Win98 built in media player from WMP11, or try going back to IE4.

Microsoft have indeed been making steady progress, but we don’t see things from a neutral perspective. We see each incremental update one at a time, thus we will not be “revolutionised” as we get our updates periodically.

All this ‘religious’ debate between Mac and Microsoft (MS) leaves me cold - MS is a monopoly by a number of basic definitions – demonstrated by a persistent market situation where there is only one dominant provider of a product or service. Through lack of competition MS has successfully internalised the ‘standard’ for OS operation whereas in other market examples the standards are externalised and participants adhere to those standards to produce complementary or interoperable products and services. As a consequence MS has effectively stifled innovation and prevented alternative products/services from emerging. MS also dominates the software delivery Value Chain so that there is no alternative OS installation that a hardware manufacturer can chose. Apple has only survived as MS allowed it to so it could point to ‘competition’ and even then Apple had to build its own Value Chain (both hardware and software) to remain in the market. I think the continual emergence of Internet based technologies and services will put a large dent in this monopoly along with the emergence of alternative OS’s that are more attuned to Web based interaction and more differentiated products – not every one plays games and business/government needs will increasingly diverge from consumer needs.

Dave said:
[b]“Ouch. How many times can they pull this scam before people catch on?

Fijis of the past: 95/98/ME, XP
Viennas of the past: 2000, Vista”[/b]

You’re only partly right about this dave. The fijis include 2000 and vista, the viennas of the past that you’re thinking of are cairo and longhorn, which got scrapped and replaced with 2000 and vista. and it seems like they’re doing it again..

[...] Filed under: Desktops, Laptops [...]

Sounds like vaporware to me…

[...] Filed under: Desktops, Laptops [...]

[...] Filed under: Desktops, Laptops [...]

For everyone who says that OS X is more “mature” and “more stable” you must really not have any IT experience.

Ask any IT professional which OS is superior, and they’ll say Windows. Why? Quite simply, because it really is the easiest to use and configure. OS X is only “mature” because they gave up with their own code and took that of Linux–which has been in development longer than Windows has, ESPECIALLY when you factor in all the distros out there.

And yet those people STILL run Windows! Why? If you truly were a “Mac fanatic” there are literally DOZENS of alternatives to the Windows version! Or perhaps it’s that you want to play games? Well then my friend, tack another one for Microsoft Windows.

In addition to all that, OS X fails when it comes to corporate networking. Where’s my active directory? Oh, that’s right, OS X Server has some crap open source version–doesn’t cut it in the corporate world.

The point of Microsoft announcing this “roadmap” (which can drop features at any time) is so that when you get Vista and get over the initial thrill and start noticing things you don’t like you willthink instead of the promises in the next version. This is a marketing ploy designed to keep you from trying alternatives (perhaps they don’t have confidence that once you try something else you’d revert back to Windows).

In case you didn’t get the $NEXT_VERSION, $VAPOR_NEXT_VERSION message Squil, it has worked like this in the recent past (it also applies to DOS, Windows 3.1, 3.11, Windows 95, 98, 98SE):

1999: Windows 2000 is the best operating system produced to date by Microsoft, it fixes all the problems of Windows 98 and is the most secure and stable version of Windows ever.

2000: Later … Ok, Windows 2000 has some issues but they’ll be fixed in Windows XP. Wait for Windows XP and you’ll be happy.

2001: Windows XP is the best Operating System from Microsoft. It fixes all the problems of earlier legacy versions of Windows. It is the most secure and stable version of Windows yet.

2005: Windows XP Service Pack 2 introduces better security and a firewall. It fixes issues with the earlier versions of Windows XP.

2005: Ooops, it turns out that Windows XP SP2 can’t be secured for compatibility reasons. But Windows Longhorn (Vista) will fix them all. Don’t look at MacOS X, wait for Longhorn!

2006: Windows Vista is the most secure and stable version of Windows ever. You’ll have increased productivity.

2007: Ok, so there are issues with Windows Vista, and people hate the security model enough to turn it off. But that will be fixed in the next version of Windows, codenamed “Fiji”. Wait for Fiji and you’ll be happy.

The remarkable thing is that people fall for it again, and again, and again. Worst things is, they actually pay for it again, and again, and again. Paying money for the same thing is stupid, not evaluating alternatives based on the promised features of Windows versions is daft. I’m not saying people should switch from Windows, but for educated people to not look at alternatives based on “vapourware” promises is doing a disservice to themselves.

Thanks for posting this in your blog James. I’m able to see that Microsoft haven’t actually got any realistic or compelling goals for the next versions of Windows. Whatever they turn out to be they’ll actually just have the same degree of changes as Vista

Actually I mostly use Windows (and Linux, and occasionally Mac OS X), but I just wanted to point out Microsoft tactics to the newbies among us who think that personal computing started at Windows XP. Have a look around at alternatives guys, they’s mostly free.

I’m guessing here, but people wouldn’t be as upset with Microsoft if they didn’t make OS promises only to back out on features and release dates.

Perhaps I’m not the only one that feels like the donkey being lead by a Microsoft carrot of promises.

[...] Filed under: Desktops, Laptops [...]

Could you please back up your claims with some sources.

No way will Microsoft break backwards compatibility with Vienna. Universal compatibility is the backbone of Windows, and many businesses will always rely on legacy applications.
Breaking compatibility would be suicide.

[...] Filed under: Desktops, Laptops [...]

http://ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_han&flashEnabled=1&

go there and watch the video. I hope that is what vienna will be like

Holy crap, I know we haven’t talked publicly about the next release - but if I could I wouldn’t even know where to begin with how wrong you are.

[...] Another drive-by-blogger has people talking about future releases of Windows.  The problem isn’t just that it’s a no-name blog with one post and nothing about the author.  The problem is that there’s no source and that the content looks to be nothing more than something some guy dreamed up while bored.  Yet people are still discussing it at places like Engadget as if it were credible? [...]

[...] Sounds reasonable so far. Windows Vienna (formerly Blackcomb) will be a huge departure from current incarnations of Windows, Similar to the transition from OS8-9 to OSX. It will break compatibility with all applications, but the newer, more flexible, richer and secure platform will be incentive enough for applications to be re-written for Vienna. Source: unnecessary [...]

Unfortunate codename… Fiji.

The island just had a military coup, has been expelled from the Commonwealth, and is in a state of political turmoil.

Maybe codenames based on ski destinations aren’t so bad after all!

As for Dale… Well, it’s no secret that most of the innovators pushing the Web 2.0 revolution have their Macbook laptops always by their sides. But they are the innovators. Mac OS X isn’t for Joe Average, ie, the poor schmucks with actual desk jobs. That market will always be for Windows, and it’s always going to be 90% plus. Sorry Apple.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

James, can I translate this to portuguese in my blog?! I will leave to you all the credit, of course!!!

Sure. But it looks like you already have. Please put a link to [jameskyton.wordpress.com]
And thanks for visiting my blog.

so… to recap…

Windows VIsta: Windows XP + Dashboard + (Spotlight/2) +bugs
Windows Fugi: Windows Vista+ .Mac + Garageband + a driver -bugs
Windows Vienna: Windows Fugi - Interface + the other half of spotlight+ speech recognition (good to know that nothing will be discoverable anymore - i’ve always wanted that :|) + Sandboxes - bugs + new bugs

In the meantime - linux distos can put in a HD-DVD driver - and someone can create a speech enabled terminal (there’s probably one already) - oh, and bundle a music app

and Mac OS X, in its expected 4 releases (actually, OS 11 may be out by then) can put in a bluray & a hd dvd driver. And theyre equal. (and leopard already does more)

Its really funny to see that there are people who think that Windows will ever beat MacOS X. Maybe if Apple close its R&D department Windows will make a better OS in 5 years or more. OS X is like a rock! Is there to let you do your work. Windows on the other hand is there to make you crazy.

“Windows allows you to do way more then the Mac will ever allow you to do”

Like what;
1. Edit and manage your photos in a better way for example; I don’t think so. Photoshop, iPhoto, Aperture are the best in the market.
2. Write a document and make a presentation; Hahahaha No way.
Keynote is much better than Powerpoint and Pcomment=Its really funny to see that there are people who think that Windowsord.
3. Edit your video’s; LOL!!!
iMovie and iDVD are a class of their own. No drivers, no troubles. Plug’n'play and not Plug’n'pray.

Now Microsoft can continue to copy. The question is what you want; To go with the leaders, the innovators (Apple) or the followers (Microsoft); You want to have a computer which works are a computer which occasionaly works; Sorry but my answer is MacOS X. No viruses, no formats, no crashes, IT WORKS!!!

A very good read.

As to .NET 3.5 or 4.0 in Fiji, I would bet on .NET 3.5, as it appears to be official for Visual Studio’s Orcas release in late 2007 or early 2008. (See http://oakleafblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/net-framework-35-for-orcas-appears.html and http://oakleafblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/orcas-rtm-to-slip-from-2007-to-2008.html).

–rj

[...] Jameskyton Filed Under: Software [...]

I like the info… sounds exciting. I just wonder, being hearsay, how accurate it is.

We’ll see

This is to Mac folks here. Why do you think OSX is so superior? I got a Mac Mini 8 months ago. I was hoping to like OSX. For last 2 months my Mac’s been gathering dust. OSX just seems very awkward and incovinient. Yeah, you have iMovie etc… So what? They’re not exactly good quality apps. The way they integrate into OS is annoying!

Remember back in a day when MS was trying to bundle up additional apps and offer them for free how everyone was crying that this is all illegal and evil?

Based on what you say, James, why didn’t Microsoft build Vienna to start with, and why should I get DRM/EULA-crippled Vista in the meantime over finally making the much cheaper switch to Linux?

I LIKE toolbars and context menus and the keyboard. So thanks for helping me choose my future [Open Source] computing path early and resolutely!

[...] Based on what Jameskyton says, why didn’t Microsoft build Vienna to start with (Vista’s successor OSes), and why should I race to get DRM/EULA-crippled Vista in the meantime over finally making the much cheaper switch to Linux? I like my toolbars and context menus and the keyboard, and I don’t like talking to my computer (I can type 85+wpm accurately, no exaggeration). Why is everyone always trying to take them away from me under the guise of novelty, i.e., the next new thing? All the awesomely cool things you list about Fiji and Vienna are sheer vapor. Microsoft has been pulling the football from us on every release, and worse, Microsoft has lost trust with users throughout this decade. Vaporware promises won’t stop the growing lure and adoption of Open Source computing. Users around the world are not begging for more versions of Windows; they’re yearning for digital freedom and net neutrality. [...]

[...] Filed under: Desktops, Laptops [...]

Responses from Slashdot…

“There are lies, damned lies, and Microsoft promises.”

We’ve heard it all before. Seriously. And it happens just like that: “Yeah, we know XP isn’t that much of an upgrade to MS-Windows 2k, but you should see Longhorn! Oh, it’s gonna be great! It’ll milk your cows, skim the cream, and make fresh ice cream! It’ll put your kids through college! Oh, and it’ll, uh, make your complexion clear up, and get rid of your herpes!”

Every time Microsoft releases a less-than-stellar product (which is invariably), they start bragging about how great things will be in the *next* release, on which they haven’t even started working. That’s the Microsoft modus operandi: promise more than the competition currently has, and deliver less. Wash, rinse, repeat.
-Tony (765) * on Saturday December 30, @01:14PM (#17410286)

MS don’t know what will be in Vienna, because Apple haven’t invented it yet. This means nothing to me.
-hachete (47337 on Saturday December 30, @01:59PM (#17410666)

pathetic and useless speculation, that’s all this is.

Unless DirectX 10 is made available for XP, Vista will be seen by home power users as a scam designed to sell virtually the same OS to people who already have it.

And on a single-user PC, Vista is one of the most annoying OSes to use. It won’t even let you save a .jpg to the root of your C: drive from an application.

To Mac fanboys; I wouldn’t say it if it was already but: so? OS X is better based on your criteria: so? Apple is not directly competing with Windows - thus, I ask again, so? Certain features of Windows releases in the future have already been in the Mac - so? It is not as if Apple was the first in any of these.

Evidently, being innovative (or at least, more innovative than your competitor) isn’t enough. Don’t believe? Ask Be Inc. Better yet, ask your God - the CEO of then NeXT.

I really wonder how the user interface will look like. Because for the basic user the interface is one of the most important things. I determines how the user interacts with the OS and if a system is simple or hard to use. The technologiy behing is not important/successfull if the interface does not meet the requirements.

[...] Engadget verwees naar een één artikel-wonder waar informatie over de opvolgers van Vista, namelijk Fiji en Vienna, onthuld werd. Mijn opwinding was van korte duur als ik het artikel begon te lezen. Alle opsommingen zijn duidelijk verzonnen, zo zou Microsoft “backwards-compatibiliteit” nooit als een feature beschrijven en anno 2007 spreken we niet meer over WinFS, want WinFS is in 2006 gestoren. [...]

[...] | Download Squad | Unnecesary _uacct = “UA-497485-1″; [...]

[...] Read | Permalink | Email this | Comments [...]

Looking beyond Vista: Fiji, Vienna, and Ford?

Sure we’re all very excited for the consumer launch of Windows Vista. Whether you love or hate the next version of the OS, we think you’ll agree it’ll be nice to stop hearing,

“A well, written blog entry. But did you notice that every amazing feature you wrote about Vista, was described as, “Just like Apple’s…” I like the way Windows is going, but they’re about 5 years behind Apple. I’m never going back to windows.”

Wait, where? None of the Vista features he mentioned is followed by “Just like Apple’s”. In fact, the only feature that is compared to an Apple product is Monaco, a bundled music app. Sounds like typical Apple fanboy FUD.

I was hoping WinFS was still alive…

Lol….the little Mac fan freaks come out of the closet to proclaim their love for OSX,and the Linux nerds come out to claim their superior OS.ahem love.
What you guys need to do is have a little belief in your own convictions and stop trying to convince the rest of us who really don’t care, about your point of view that you did the right thing in overpaying for your computers and giving up on your social lives and the chance to actually have a girlfriend.

[...] the post by James Kyton. [...]

I have read this article with an open mind and really am not impressed. Once again, another update release? I’m really getting tired of that. And I really don’t like the fact that in “Vienna” you lose most of your control of your data and the pie shaped interface just doesn’t appeal to me. “Vienna” will most likely be even more of a hardware intensive OS than even Vista, which is kind of annoying. I can do all of the eye-candy crap in Linux running off of a live-cd w/ 256 MB of RAM and a 1.5 Celeron processor w/ Integrated Graphics….. And even then I’m doing more than all of the Vista effects. I’m simply not impressed with all of the Microsoft “innovations”.

It’s really amazing to see all of the Microsoft *fanboys* bashing all of the Mac and Linux dudes for stating pure fact. You guys are really rude. Especially the last comment by Steve. That was uncalled for. Most of the new features in Vista have been on the Mac for a few years now. I don’t think you can truthfully call copying innovative… I’m really not impressed with all of everything Microsoft is feeding us. Yes Vista is the best Windows so far (besides Windows 2000- fast, safe, secure) but it’s way behind the competition and is extremely hardware intensive. You have to have one stinking amazing machine to make all of the new cool stuff work smoothly. I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone, just simply stating my views.

Fiji will just be Microsoft’s catch-up to Apple, featuring Microsoft Time Booth, (data recovery), Microsoft Spaces, (virtual desktops), Resolution Independence, and other rip offs of new Apple Tech.
Vienna won’t come out till 2020, earliest.

Blah blah blah, every time when good news about Microsoft is posted, little fanboys of the Apple Kingdom come running in screaming that everything Microsoft ever made was ripped off of some almighty revolutionary-mankind Apple invention just as how Apple invented the lightbulb. Anyway, fanboys, why don’t you run off to your little happy place and proclaim your unshakable love for Steve Jobs a few more thousand times.

Back to the original topic, really nice article. It is interesting to actually know what is planned ahead. Already I am looking forward to Fiji and beyond. Hope to hear more soon.

Vienna & Fiji

Hi Folks, i want to say “Happy Eid & Happy New Year” for all of you,2006 was a fantastic year for me,and

[...] Read: Looking at Fiji and Vienna [...]

Hey guys, this message board software this website runs on, is it something i can buy for my own website or is it propriatary?

The Dermacia Dude

Hi, Thanks for the great article on ‘Beyond Windows Vista’. Look I’m not against Windows - just as I’m not against voluntary euthanasia - it’s for the consenting adult to decide. but I’d just like to say to all the Windows users; who use the popularity of Windows as the main plank in their argument against Macs, that 95% of lemmings think that jumping over a cliff is a pretty neat idea. My P.C. died after a simple ‘Windows Update’ crashing every time I clicked the ‘Start’ button. and my next computer will definitely be a Mac - although I’m waiting for Leopard before I splash out. Cheers.
John

Is there any better, or easier blog software out there than this? i need something php based that doesnt kill MySQL. Any techie types on this thread that can point me in the right direction?

Get a free gift here: http://www.Toys4Free.com/23849

This page explains everything and includes proof pictures!

[...] (more… [...]

Freddy: “Fiji will just be Microsoft’s catch-up to Apple, featuring Microsoft Time Booth, (data recovery), Microsoft Spaces, (virtual desktops), Resolution Independence, and other rip offs of new Apple Tech.
Vienna won’t come out till 2020, earliest.”

haha, that’s funny, don’t you mean how Leopard is Apple’s catch-up to Microsoft, featuring Time Machine (Win2003’s Previous Versions), Spaces (XP’s Virtual Desktop Manager Powertoy, not to mention the standard virtual desktops in KDE and Gnome), and other rip offs

Apple isn’t any more innovative than Microsoft anymore … most of their “new technology” is either bought out by companies who had already made it, or are glittery rehashes of previously-released software, which generate about the same amount of “wow” as glittery, shiny objects with infants

Apple only fools the tech world ignorant

windows Figi turns out to be the first service pack installment for windows vista slated to be released at the end of this year.

Iam looking forward to vista and am looking forward to vienna

I thought I would clear this up for those who don’t understand.
The best way to actually create innovative things is plan for the best. Anyone who programs software would know you set your goals much higher then you will ever achieve. Of course MS is making promises they may never keep, but they are creating new interfaces all the time so at least it will be entertaining to see what finally come out.

And to egg on the mac debate:
I personally prefer to make my own computers(with more power then macs for much less). I don’t see why people are so fascinated with an OS that can run on only one main hardware configuration (apple’s) even Linux can do better then that. I also prefer to pay for one release from MS and get all minor releases free rather then pay for OSX then again for tiger and panther and whatever jungle-beast is next. Anyway enjoy your mac an I’ll continue to make people PC’s when they actually want to do something on a computer besides sync an ipod.

[...] παρακάτω site λοιπόν περιέχονται 2 [...]

[...] a post at Wiggler [GR] about the upcoming features in the Microsoft Fiji and Vienna projects that this guy here is proclaiming, rumoured to be the successors to Windows [...]

Hi guys, First Question… Is Windows vista worth for you? Is office 2007 a new revolution or just shit software of all times? Let me tell you my views..

Seven years ago, my dad told me :
Boy, Windows 2000 is great, learn it thoroughly, you will surely get a job with in the future.

Seven years later and today my dad says :
Boy, use your head and XP to listen to music, play movie and games and also use internet with a strong antivirus and firewall like PANDA internet suite. I dont think vista will take you to somewhere.. and is not worth at all.

Why dad?

XP is still the best of all because you can do anything with it. It is extensively used by all companies, my boy.

But dad, vista is new with enhanced features?
Boy, your future lies in the hand of companies. why would they invest into Vista when other spyfree, more stable and reliable OS is now available in this REAL WORLD like Linus and MacOS, which is more or less free and cheap. XP as a platform is enough to RUN a business. Bosses are enough with spending monies on new platform, they now invest on new custom application for running department than just thinking of OS. New things are not really necessary NEW to them. Be aware there is a world who is turning to virus free OS nowadays and you should learn this side of it MORE IMPORTANTLY than arguing Vista a new technology.

Okay dad, i conclude businesses are more interesting to insvest into A VIRUS FREE OS like linux clients and servers rather than a vulnerable OS like vista. There will always be patches and service pack to fix this RUSHLY UNSTABLE, BULKY, EATING UP HARD DISK SPACE OS.

I have learnt something new today, dad. XP meanwhile is best for me and vista is not just a waste of money, but a crazy lipstick for novices

As a tech that deals with PC & Mac repair everyday i have to say:
Everytime a Mac user talks about his last horrible experience with a PC, i shake my head. “My PC died after a windows update!!” For godssake, run a real antivirus.. you know, the kind you dont have to pay for, AVG. You try to connect some windows update with windows crashing when you hit the start button. Companies like Norton and Mccaffe are the real criminals in the PC world, charging for EXTREMLY bloated software that is a 1000x less effective then the free stuff. Same with spyware….
So switch all you want, but everytime you tell your story, know you’re admitting your idiocy and incompetence.

[...] gaat worden in Fiji, ik heb in ieder geval geen betrouwbare bron gevonden. Heel veel blogs houden deze lijst aan, maar die lijkt mij volledig uit de lucht gegrepen, aangezien er punten in staan die [...]

James can you PLEASE list your sources for this info? Seriously, otherwise this post is nothing but fantasies you got bothered typing up in your spare time. Everyone, take these “promises” with a hugh load of salt.

P.S. Microsoft Corporation Limited has NOT announced, confirmed, or otherwise leaked ANY information regarding the feature-set for BOTH Fiji and Vienna.

Wow, WinFS over NTFS for Fiji. James you screwed up, WinFS has already been announced DEAD. It won’t be released in the form of “WinFS” but will end up in diff products.

“-All bundled application will be updated to newer versions”

Well duh… maybe except for Calculator and Notepad …

“-Tighter integration with Windows Live. Probably through ‘Codename Nemo’,”

Well I bet that’s what the screenshot you have is? Ummm, AFAIK, MS is restricted from bundling and linking Windows Live with Windows, according to jurisdictions as well as the holy “Windows Principles”

“- Search will part a huge part in Vienna (like it does in the control panel of Vienna)”

Like it wasn’t said before for Vista… Look the absence of WinFS has apparantly disallowed Vista applications to implement this really cool feature in “Longhorn” that allows you to *FILTER* results instead of searching… Searching needs you to think, filtering doesn’t, make that distinction… Filtering your files on the fly inside a program (not a separate dialog box) with context-sensitive criterias was a groundbreaking feature that got cut out due to the death of WinFS.

New icons just for an interim release (Fiji)? Oh please… MS got more pressing matters than that.

After a while typing this post… I realized the post’s tone that this is very likely your own thinking of what Fiji and Vienna will be. It’s like you just saw a bit of this and that from MS and you make your own conclusions of what they will include in the next OSes. OK whatever. Look I’m not a Mac “fanatic” in fact I have hated them for quite some time (read: 10 years). But…. it was the development of Longhorn that I followed since 2002 that made me realized how crap MS is at making OSes (vaporware, stripping features out). I have totally lost confidence in their “ability” to innovate on time.

Look, Mac OS X… you really need to try one of these awesome 24″ iMacs to believe just how futuristic yet functional an OS can be. I can tell you just buy 1, just 1 Mac in your whole life and use it for 3 days exclusively. I swear you will then begin to think different about Apple.

I saw the ads for Vista on TV and they made me chuckle… Wow Wow Wow… Woooooooowwwwwwww windows flying around in Flip 3D…. Woww…… Wowww…. Who cares……. Wowwwwww…. Thanks but this ad made me realize that MS could only find Flip 3D the only selling point for Vista… Wowww just proves Vista is just XP in fancy suit.

The Wow Starts Now…

I can’t believe MS just scammed us by making Vista the “groundwork” for Vienna to exploit. Vista is just a OS with all thse .NET APIs, barebones…. very little in Vista has taken full advantage of them. Heck even Office 2007 DOES NOT use WPF, WCF, WWF. UNBELIEVABLE…. You have been ripped off if you upgraded to OFfice 07 because you will need Office 2010, which will be released along with Vienna before it will take advantage of ALL the new APIs, and even then Office 2010 will NOT take advantage of all the new features of Vienna because of the schedule.

Also…

It works like this in MS in the past:

1999: Office 2000 - optimized for Windows 98 and NT4
2000: Windows 2000 introduced

2001 Jun: Office XP - optimized for Windows 2000
2001 Oct: Windows XP introduced

2003: Office 2003 - optimzed for Windows XP

2007: Windows Vista introduced
2007: Office 2007 - optimized for Windows XP (only the UI has a Vista feel but does NOT use any of Vista’s graphics capabilities)

What this means is that Vienna will be the actual “revolution” OS like OS9 to OSX, accoring to MS. Well… I have heard the same story some years ago with Longhorn… Am I going to fall in the same trick again? You bet…

The Start philosophy is so crap… Good just destroy the entire UI and start from scratch, we’ve seen this Windows UI long enough haven’t we? It’s time for a change for good…

Flip 3D, taskbar previews and Sidebar is nothing but a bandaid to the poor design of the Windows 95-Vista UI. Taskbar sucks. period. You see some stupid icon with some text that over 95% chance is not going to fit within that narrow button. Asthetically it looks ugly. In use it doesn’t allow you to see the real window. Same with the program list in Start button.

The Dock from OSX is really thought out. period. It’s beautiful to look at. It’s functional. The icons show live info (like 30 e-mail in Mail program). They take little screen space. The running program icons are previews themselves. Beats any version of Start MS cooks up.

This level of attention to detail is what separates Apple from MS - clearly.

I just came back from the local IncompetentUSA shop where I played with Vista. It seems to me merely a new GUI for XP, and not one that gives me any real necessary functionality. I’m sticking with XP and 2000. As for the Mac fans talking about stability, I have never seen windows destroy data the way a Mac does. Your fooling yourself by parroting Apple marketing lies that windows machines are less stable. XP on a properly configured system is rock solid.

[...] looks like Microsoft has already started working on their next operating system, code named Vienna.  According to PC World, it is scheduled to be released in 2009, and will include several of the [...]

MS don’t know what will be in Vienna, because Apple haven’t invented it yet.

“MS don’t know what will be in Vienna, because Apple haven’t invented it yet.”

That was the funniest comment I’ve seen. I’m not an apple user, I *have* to deal with MS windows. The truth is, MS has 80%+ share because it has 80% share. People will use what others are using, not what is *best* OS.

What I see though, is that Windows fans (which are WAY too smaller in numbers than “users” are constantly awaiting the next-generation OS saviour that will guide them to the promised nirvana. Meanwhile, Mac and Linux users are always cheering their CURRENT OS, and constantly being fed with actual sci-fi OS every year, not just faint words.

Puah. Vista is even worse than XP. What should I expect from Vienna?!?

[...] of these shortcomings will be addressed with the first service pack for Vista, codename Fiji. A fully realized version of WinFS, however, will likely not appear until [...]

[...] of these shortcomings will be addressed with the first service pack for Vista, codename Fiji. A fully realized version of WinFS, however, will likely not appear until [...]

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I am sure this vienna thing will be great. The only problem will be that PC won’t have enough power to run it. Sure if you spend 5 grand on your PC maybe. Vista requires 1gb of ram. And how many do you think vienna will require? Probalby about 5. So in 2010 if you have a Pc with 5gb of ram i am sure Vennia will be great.

Nice article, but you need to put your references down. Lack of references seriously detracts from your credibility. REFERENCES BOY!

OK – to add fuel to the fire. Honestly, I have been in the PC industry since many here were in diapers. I have seen it evolve, and have seen the stupid Mac/Windows debate rage on an on. It isn’t going anywhere. The oldest argument was over the mouse. The Mac had a mouse first, then the IBM microchannel based PC had them. Whoopdiddilee doo who had it first – it was an innovation that truly helped progress the industry (and any fool who argues that the Mac has a better mouse today clearly has only one finger). The next argument was that Mac had better graphics… and for a time their desktop publishing was the star. So friggin what… yea, I can print something with a border that I can’t do on the PC. Look guys… if we want to get into arguments about what is better, who has the bigger this… or whatever, we need to include all the players… The ATARI ST had a much better graphics than Apple at that time, so who copied it? Apple. Oh and yeah, Atari blew it.

Do people realize that there are few new and innovative ideas out there today in the software OS land? Whoopdideedoo… Mac has a cool gui. So what… BeOS had a sweet gui and fundamental OS and it died. What I am saying here is that gui’s don’t build success. Market share builds success. Does this crew even realize that in the late 1990’s Apple opened up hardware rights for generic hardware manufacturers for a year or so? As a result, their market share began to grow, but so did their problems. What did they learn? They learned that their OS couldn’t handle it… it couldn’t handle hardware made from zillions of different manufacturers with different drivers and different issues. Their OS couldn’t handle it – that’s a fact. So, they locked it back down, which incidentally was clearly profitable to lock it down at the prices they put their hardware today, and focused on their cash-cow – the OS. So, you have low market share, low attention, few issues with hardware incompatibility, and overall low flexibility for users with high expense. To me it sounds like a win for Apple and loss for the consumer (with exception of one-fingered money bags).

Thanks to Microsoft’s effort to keep their OS on different hardware, I can build a sweet PC with a solid OS for a 1/4th of the cost of a Mac. Before I ever think about making my primary PC a Mac, they need to truly step up to the table and compete rather than make some stupid little pretty gui. I need function, not eye candy, which honestly disappoints me on the Vista front – yes, I took it off – MS blew it if you ask me. And to all those who are Mac fanboys out there who ignorantly state that Mac software is *so much better*, I think you need to spend more time on BOTH systems and realize that you can do the same exact things just as easy, often with the same software (photoshop was pointed out earlier in this thread - yes, photoshop was first developed for mac which is why mac had its “graphics hayday”, but has been released on IBM since 1993 after acquisition by Adobe). Sure, it doesn’t have the eye candy on a PC, but if all your after is eye candy, go use your one finger and play with your Mac – Apple will certainly oblige - they are certainly happy to take your money for it. I mean, heck, they love people who can’t step up to a challenge – they didn’t.

On one final note - if we are talking about firms copying other firms, why did Apple just switch to Intel chips? If my memory serves me correctly… IBM pc’s were using Intel chips years and years ago - wow, that may even be before my time.

So - to sum it up - the Apple MS argument will continue to persist. In my mind Apple will always loose until they pony up and support generic hardware. That’s why you go with a PC - not for eye candy.

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I just bought Windows Vista. I have to say, I really hate it–XP was so much simpler. The folders in Vista are annoying–littered with useless menus and crap. And they take ages to load. If it wasn’t for my workplace being filled with bloody windows machines, I’d switch to LINUX in a flash. Vista is a waste of money, and a bloody waste of time. I wish i could get a refund.

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Nice thoughts MacK. You are right at some arguments but people here jusl loose the big picture and the big picture is called ENTERPRICE Servers. And there is where Microsoft is getting SPEED with their servers and the bond server-desktop. Although Possix (Linux, Unix) is pretty dominant in this field microsoft is putting serious services in their Exchange, ISS, Sharepoint, etc. which in turn is making the big proffits for their desktop products like Windows, Office. Also they are developing the serious stuff for management called Dynamics which rivals successfully Oracle and SAP solutions That’s the real money. Because I don’t know too many people to install retailed version of 95,98,me,xp or vista on their machines for 250$+. Ussually they put pirated versions and thats it. That’s what works in Microsoft advantage too because even if you use pirated vista at home your company will buy it for you. That’s what Steve jobs implied in one of his interviews. That the battle with the hackers is lost allready, and there is no point of putting a lot of money in this battle.

So lately OSX changed their pollitics and they dont worry too much for the hacked OSX tigers lingering arround the net, that you can install on other hardware. This will help them a lot to take better market share.

Apple is follower and it will stay follower in the server field and thus it will remain in the lower market shares. Yes they have Possix OS for the server but I dont see their market aggresion selling their server-desktop solutions for big organizations. The thing that will popularize Mac in the future is the gadgets and additional electronic devices they will produce in the next 10 years. Their gadgets are really really cool with a really nice design! which matters in our days. This is part of their strategy. But for serious business, people will still preffer Windows.

About the MAC vs. Windows debate I will ask how many of you know that Microsoft is one of the biggest customers of Apple? And how many of you know that the XBOX 360 (Microsoft’s game console) has RISK arhitecture with OS written by Apple??? And if you saw the Microsoft Surface computer you will see for sure an ellements that could not be designed by other than Apple… So We the silly customer really don’t know what is happening up there in the heads of these geniuses Bill and Steve and other popular IT specialists.

We will wait and see.

And for you LIUIGI I relly wonder what you mean by “cheering their CURRENT OS, and constantly being fed with actual sci-fi OS every year”

There is nothing sci-fi in the Linux. It is just Possix standard which was refined since the start of UNIX many many years ago. Most of the survices that the Possix OS’s include where invented years ago, just you had to write a lot in a tex console. Now They started picking up speed in the GUI’s of these flavours of Possix - linux, unix, OSx, bsd you name it. Even Steve Jobs said that their main business is the GUI, because they used just possix standard for the rest. Yes it is deffinetily better functioning because the way the oppereating sistem is programed and constructed. Simpler than Windows. Bill Gates used the VMS OS for its first ideas behind Windows NT, which was the base for 2000 and the XP and Vista. Despite the fact that they state that Vista is totally different rewritten platform. The concepts are the same. The thing is that Microsoft is in the business a lot of years so they got in the details of their concepts and refined them and I can say that Windows now is a mature OS with such a power that can rivals the Possix OS’es. Also Windows is the MOST supported OS from the hardware vendor which is a huge advantage. Also they are investing so much money in the interfacing with theyr OS that once they got it right they will beat the other guys again. Bill gates is saying that he wants to change the perception for interaction between machines and people. And I’m sure they will succeed. If you take a look at Windows Surface Coputer you will understand me. There is no Apple machine I’m aware that can do this stuff!!! And this is real revolution! not the Vista ot Vienna. I’m sure we will port most of this technology at some point to the desktop may be in Vienna R3.

The other revolution might be WinFS. It might get to WinFS R3 as well untill it becomes mature file system, but the idea is revolutionary so far. File System which is a Data Base. This in its turm will convert the internet to a huge DATA pool with unlimited possibilities. Can you imagine that one day the hole computer hardware busses might use internet protocols and thus aliminate the bottlenecks in the computers??? This is revolution. Your hard disk might have just an IP and that it. you plug it and it will not matter if you plug it at home, the guarrage or jsut in the special bin in your livving room. You will acces it from Africa if you want….

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I don’t like the idea of Windows 7 or vista it is becoming so much more ‘Mac’ As we speak!

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Vista was rushed in 2005.
Longhorn wasn’t yet done yet.Nobody wants an unfinished software.
That forced Microsoft to make vista but vista is extremely buggy now because it’s rushed.
Vienna and Fiji might be released in 2008

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Nice points…

Ok, Vista has many problems, agreed. I have been using Vista since Beta 2 was released for testing. At least the current version of Vista is a vast improvement of Beta 2 towards the lag time on the computer. Lets not forget though that when XP was released, it had numerous problems and error and took over a year to make it completely stable. People are judging Vista too quickly. Just give it time. My predictions– Fiji, which is the Media Center edition of Vista, will be released in the late Q3 of 2008. Vienna will be released in the early Q4 of 2010. They are currenttly saying Vienna will be released in late 2009, but I say give them another year. And towards all of you Apple fans out there, Apples are great computers, but the problem is that there are so many programs that don’t run on Macs. I use alot of the Autodesk programs like AutoCAD and Autodesk has stated that they will NEVER make the program for Macs. Now I know that I can load windows and do a dual boot inside of OS X, but why would I want to buy an Apple and then have to load windows inside of it just to use my programs? That really seems like wasting your money, having to buy Mac OS X and Windows. Just wait for Vienna, I think people will be surprised. Besides if the program industries refuse to upgrade their core programming to work with Vienna, it will only hurt them when Microsoft expires Vista in 2011.

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Hi, everybodyo

Greetings!..s

Yea, apple is a great mind fudge. They filter through products to let you have one bit by bit so you swallow up a minor upgrade after minor upgrade. Look at Ipods… Iphone. I mean Com on Apple screwed over soo many people with ipods and how you HAVE to use itunes. That is not freedom more like a nazi camp. Apple wants you to be only apple and nothing else. In windows I can do/use any app i want. I can install any piece of Hardware. Also http://www.macfixit.com exists for a reason. ONly reason you can even install windows on a mac is cuz of intel chips.

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